In the past, CPA Alberta’s Connector Program partnered with CRIEC (Calgary Regional Immigration Employment Centre) and Bow Valley College to hold an event called “Improv for Life: Have Engaging Conversations”. The event workshop was hosted by a local Calgary Improv troupe called the Kinkonauts, who self-identify as a long-form Improv Laboratory.
Maggie Knight, Member engagement Coordinator at CPA Alberta met with Nicole Zylstra to discuss Improv tactics as a strategy for engaging conversations. Nicole has been involved in improv for the past 20 years.
Maggie Knight (MK): What interests you about Corporate Training?
Nicole Zylstra (NZ): Part of it was my own interest…especially in the past year or so. Whenever I would listen to the radio, I would hear a business writer who has come up with a new concept about the value of failure. Anything that had to do with entrepreneurship or management had the same recurring themes of risk and uncertainty. I kept thinking this is such a natural cross over with improv. Then there was the communication aspect as well….as Jason Lewis says, we, as improvisers, are experts at “high stakes spontaneous interaction”.
MK: On June 2nd, we did a workshop with you and over the course of the evening you led a handful of activities that were aimed at providing participants with strategies to have more engaging conversations. I was wondering what did you choose and could explain why you chose those activities?
NZ: Our goal is for participants to have confident conversations. So for this event, we developed games that centered on being comfortable while being uncomfortable. Part of taking part in engaging conversations is to be willing to take a risk, and part of that risk is being uncomfortable and knowing what the consequences are. Essentially the idea of failing or stumbling is worth the risk, and even though you don’t have the same success that you anticipated, some other opportunity will come out of that. So basically boosting people’s confidence is getting people used to the idea that they are (a) capable of it and (b) it’s not as bad as they might think.
The other essential components were listening and asking GREAT questions, so we did exercises around both.
MK: You mentioned “Yes and”, could explain what that is and how it applies to taking risks and engaging in conversations?
NZ: It’s a basic principal in all improv. It refers to the idea of accepting offers that you are given on stage, however, it applies equally to every component in life, whether in business or any collaboration. You take an idea, accept the basic idea, even if you don’t necessarily agree with it right away, and then you add your own ideas into the mix.
For instance if you are on stage and someone says “This is a flower”, and the other person says “No this is a gun”, and if one of you doesn’t give in then the conversation doesn’t go anywhere, and you wind up bickering…and the energy gets sucked out of the conversation and it doesn’t go anywhere
If, however, someone sets the stage and says, “I think fireflies will make an interesting energy source”, instead of knocking down the idea right away, one might just ask “tell me more about that” even if they do think it is ridiculous. You might not know what will happen, but something will progress.
MK: How do you know when that conversation is not going to work out, or if it’s not progressing? How, for example on stage, do you keep that conversation going?
NZ: Very interesting! Again, you can go far with “tell me more about that”.
It gives you time to figure out what else you can do because maybe something else will come up that you can latch onto through their explanation.
MK: That brings up “Great Questions”. What types of questions can someone ask to keep the conversation progressing?
NZ: Essentially the difference between good questions and GREAT questions is the difference between closed and open-ended questions. A closed question leads to a yes /no, or simple answer. For example if you ask someone “What time is the party tonight?”, it’s a what question, which is an open question, but it requires a specific answer like “7:00 pm”. If you ask a broader question like “What do you have planned for the party tonight?” or “How do you feel about the party” it opens up the conversation. Asking someone how they feel about something is a great invitation to tell you more because there is no easy way to answer that. Great questions start with a how, what and why.
MK: How important is listening in improv? You can ask Great Questions, but if you don’t listen to the answers the conversation can lead no-where. What were some of the listening strategies that you had us practice at the Improv event, and how do those relate to conversations and how we become more active listeners?
NZ: Pass the clap- you look at the person next to you, and then clap. The goal is to make that clap continuous in a circle of people. Simultaneous and continuous. The best way to do that is to use non-verbal listening skills such as eye contact, body language; turning your body towards your partner helps. It’s a simple ways to illustrate non-verbal communication.
MK: I read somewhere that improv requires you to embrace uncertainty, and you mentioned earlier failure, risk, and uncertainty. Can you explain that more?
NZ: In improv, you don’t have a script, and, therefore, it’s uncertain. In improv, we are trying to tell a compelling story, but we start with nothing so the whole thing is uncertain. Just like in life.
In order for something to happen, someone has to take a risk. Part of taking that risk is acknowledging that you don’t know where this is going to go. There is also great potential that this will go nowhere, but there’s no possibility for brilliance if you don’t take that risk. If you don’t make choices or strong choices and you play it safe, it’s not really exciting or compelling for the audience. Often in improve, if you fall flat on your face, something great will come out of that. That in itself is an enormous opportunity. If everything went the way you wanted or planned in life, it wouldn’t be exciting or engaging.
MK: So, then can you tell me about a time that you fell flat on your face?
NZ: It does happen all the time. This is a minor example and it might not be fair but a super talented improviser I work with, is brilliant for taking language risks, because he doesn’t always know the right word for something, but he will say something that is similar, and it will be something that no one would think of. It’s ridiculous and the audience falls apart. For example, he might end up calling an arcade like a flashing entertainment center. So in a sense he has failed, but the audience loves it. That is great to work with because it allows others on the stage to play on that.
Very often we try this as performers. This is what we call object work, where if we try to mime on stage you do it slowly and clearly, however, our object work isn’t always successful. Sometimes you don’t know what someone is performing, but your job is to name it, so you might name it differently from what they intended. So whatever is named, then the person performing has to go with it. Your best intentions might not work out, and someone might re-name it, but now something good can come out of it.
MK: How has improv changed your own life. You indicated that you were an introvert yourself, so how has improv helped you?
NZ: At one point I was performing a show at the Science Dome, and there was a family with a young girl and I asked this young girl “how are you doing”, and she kind of shrunk away, and her parents said “Oh, sorry she’s shy”, and I said “Don’t worry, I am shy too”, but her parents kind of looked at me inquisitively and at that moment I realized that I had learned some skills to deal with being an introvert through improv and performance exercises. It was good for me to realize that I had learned a certain level of comfort and confidence.
MK: How do you see how risk, uncertainty and failure as it relates to business and collaboration?
NZ: I know for me personally, one of the reasons we are attracted to this type of skill is because we struggle with it in our personal lives. Being comfortable with risk, uncertainty, and learning from failure is important especially in today’s economic climate. I know people are concerned, however, there are opportunities. It’s important to have a strategy for being uncomfortable. In peoples personal lives, this is especially useful when talking about their partner. In improv, there is another principle that we use that says “make your partner look good”. If you make the other person the star of the conversation, it takes the pressure off of you to be brilliant and engaging. If you are concerned about “what will I say next”, or “what should I do”, you stop listening. As soon as you just listen it transforms the energy within the conversation. If both of you are just focusing on making the other person looks good, then everybody wins.
MK: I can see where that can work in team collaboration. Has there been times in performance where you have to “call people” on that; or is there a way to deal with that in a positive way?
NZ: If you’re in a scene, where someone has stopped collaborating and has gotten stuck in their own way, the only thing you can really do is try to collaborate. Calling someone out in the middle of the scene goes against the principle of making your partner look good.
In a situation where someone is stuck in a path, I might default to asking them some questions. They might not necessarily be aware that they are, or if they are then they can explain why.
In the “Yes and”, you are asking what else is possible. Someone might be more open to possibilities if they don’t feel like they are being dismissed. You are not talking about right and wrong, but rather about possibilities.
MK: It seems like improv makes you do things in a “positive manner”, do you think improv has made a positive effect on your life?
NZ: Yes absolutely, improv keeps you open to possibilities; instead of immediately shutting down. Some new improvisers might start a scene like “I want a divorce!”, but there isn’t a lot to go from there. Starting positive, allows you a basis to build from, which we call a platform.
The same is true in your personal life. I have found that to learn from things when they stink and to learn from failure because opportunities will arise from that.
MK: I think that fear of reaching out to new people is something that a lot of people feel when they are starting to build relationships and network. What are some strategies for making that easier?
NZ: Remaining curious means to keep listening. When you take the focus off of you and onto the other person, the more comfortable you are going to feel. For me, for example if I know I am in a situation with new people I imagine that they are just as uncomfortable as I am. I try to make them more comfortable throughout the conversation, therefore taking the focus off me and onto them. Moving the focus off yourself to someone else helps quell any anxiety you might have.
Nicole and the Kinkonauts offer both corporate training and Improv classes. Recently the group performed an Improv Shakespeare inspired show, which isn’t as easy as you may think. You can learn more about the company, upcoming shows, and Improv through their website below.
